Can someone please explain to me in simple terms the origins and reasons between the Israeli and Palestinian relationship/conflicts? I'm trying to understand the motives for each side, but I really don't understand how people can support Israel, though it may be my (genuine) lack of understanding.
The way I understand it: After WW II millions of displaced Jews, with the help of the UN (eg. US and UK) resettled in Palestine by taking the best land Palestine had and displacing millions of Arabs, forcing them out of their homes. Palestine resisted this and never agreed to the UN resolution permitting it. Arabs have since wanted the right to reoccupy their land, and Israel and the UN refuse. Any attempt to occupy the land is futile because the USA has provided Israel with one of the most powerful armies in the world.
What I don't understand is this: If the jews had attempted to do exactly the same thing in USA, UK, Russia etc would we have expected any different a result? What right does the UN have to strip a sovereign nation of its land and hand it to another group? How can people be so against Palestine wanting to reoccupy its sovereign land, and why does everyone pretend there is some "god given right" for Israel to occupy the land?
easy to explain: God/religion.
What nobody want's to take a stab at this?
Short answer:(Skip to the end for key summary)
I'm learning a lot as I write this and consequently could be dead wrong on some things.
In simple terms? Well, seeing as you've failed to acknowledge the juicy bits of history, I'll use my long forgotten knowledge from Fifth Form history and Wikipedia to try and get a consensus.
The way I understand it: After WW II millions of displaced Jews, with the help of the UN (eg. US and UK) resettled in Palestine by taking the best land Palestine had and displacing millions of Arabs, forcing them out of their homes.
This bit here makes me think that you assume that Arabs actually held Palestine up to WW2, also it makes me think you believe that Jews just started coming to Palestine post WW2. If I'm accurate there we'll clear some things up:
Jews had been coming over prior to WW2. It's called an Aliyah and basically they've been doing it the modern era since the early 1880's. This is why If the Jews had attempted to do exactly the same thing in USA, UK, Russia etc would we have expected any different a result? isn't really relevant; they had this place in mind long before Hitler. Or alternatively you could say would USA, UK, Russia etc tolerate taking of their lands like we did to Maori, no but that's not relevant either.
As for Arabs being kicked out of their land, that's sort of debatable as well. Being that it was actually Britain's. You see prior to Britain getting her hands on this hot little region it belonged to the Ottoman Empire. And putting it shortly they backed a losing horse by siding with Germany in The Great War. Palestine wasn't the only thing gained from this war; we got what was formally German Samoa, which we kept, then gave back on the condition that we get their best rugby players. But anyway Britain tries to make everyone happy and they would nearly of gotten away with it if they didn't misfile the Desert Ninja's (I just made that up) great map that took into consideration that not all Arabs can be lumped into the same area. I guess Whitey just generally thought all darkies were friends or something back then. As for taking the best land Palestine had, it's common to eat the shit sandwich for picking the wrong side in WW1; Germany had to put up with lost territory and hyperinflation
But we have to remember this place has a long history of kicking people out of their homes; Israel, gets it from Britain, who gets it from the Ottoman Empire, who gets it from the Egyptians, who in turn got it from the Ottoman Empire. Actually, this might look more compelling in list form:
3.3.1 Hebrew Bible/Old Testament period
3.3.2 Persian rule (538 BCE)
3.4.1 Hellenistic rule (333 BCE)
3.4.2 Hasmonean dynasty (140 BCE)
3.4.3 Roman rule (63 BCE)
3.4.4 Byzantine (Eastern Roman) rule (330–640 CE)
3.5 Islamic period (630–1918 CE)
3.5.1 Arab Caliphate rule (638–1099 CE)
3.5.1.1 Umayyad rule (661–750 CE)
3.5.1.2 Abbasid rule (750–969 CE)
3.5.1.3 Fatimid rule (969–1099 CE)
3.5.2 Crusader rule (1099–1187 CE)
3.5.3 Mamluk rule (1270–1516 CE)
3.5.4 Ottoman rule (1516–1831 CE)
3.5.5 Egyptian rule (1831–1841)
3.5.6 Ottoman rule (1841–1917)
3.7 British Mandate (1920–1948)
3.7.4 End of the British Mandate 1945–1948
3.8 UN partition and the 1948 Palestine War
3.9 1948 to current times
Catch my drift?(cheers Wikipedia)
So really this is just another chapter in this regions history. It's been what 62 years? That's not that long and I assure you in its current state it wont last; much like I believe New Zealand wont stay predominantly white forever.
How can people be so against Palestine wanting to reoccupy its sovereign land, and why does everyone pretend there is some "god given right" for Israel to occupy the land? Well ignoring the fact that the Jews actually built Jerusalem before they themselves got driven out by the Assyrians way back in 722 BCE; it would be fucking hard to reneg on the whole arrangement. Do you know how hard it is to do that? This is a nation that is as ready for war as I am to put on shoes. Facing being out numbered and targeted by the entire region (Fun Fact: They're weren't as popular back then (not that they are now)) they took them all on at once and had it wrapped up within a week.
What right does the UN have to strip a sovereign nation of its land and hand it to another group? Well at this point this is just Britain's exit strategy, because well as we all know trying to install your ways in the Middle East is a bitch. Keep in mind British control predates the UN (hence dealing with the League of Nations(=fail))So by trying to make designated Jewish and Arab areas everything would be all good, they could leave and there could be peace in the Middle East. But then people get angry cause I guess it's hot out there or something and the heat can make you cranky, add to that they have to do Ramadan you're bound to have a powder keg out there.
------------------------------------------------
Short version
- Jews were their at the beginning, built a nice city, driven off, come back gradually over time.
- Previous holders of Palestine shit the bed by getting into bed with Germany.
- Rule, Britannia! becomes a new smash single, becoming #1 in the charts (click it)
- Shit hits the fan
- Britain tries to give it to both groups with a poorly planned map; screws the Palestinians.
- Israel formed the day before Britain leaves.
- Steal Underpants
- ?????
- Profit
The majority of what you said is true. But your conclusions are bullshit.
- Jews were their at the beginning, built a nice city, driven off, come back gradually over time.
MEANWHILE - 2000 FUCKING YEARS LATER
- Previous holders of Palestine shit the bed by getting into bed with Germany.
- Rule, Britannia! becomes a new smash single, becoming #1 in the charts (click it)
- Shit hits the fan
- Britain tries to give it to both groups with a poorly planned map; screws the Palestinians.
- Israel formed the day before Britain leaves.
- Steal Underpants
- ?????
- Profit
-----
All props to Israel, read the Six Day War just to begin to comprehend the magnitude of what the Knesset faces every day from its neighbours.
The biggest cause of conflict at the moment can probably be targeted at Israels continual flagrant violation of the legal boundaries of what should be Palestine. The majority of Palestinians can not access other parts of Palestine without going through rigorous border controls.
There are Jewish suburbs on what is legally recognized by the UN as Palestine's land. Israel also dominates the Golan heights (Syria's), the West Bank (ex-Jordan's) and that's only the start.
At present Israel is the gross violator of International Law, but I can understand why they do it.
As mentioned, its going to be a problem in 30 years because the Arab Israeli population is growing alot faster than the Jewish. Thankyou Exponential Growth.
your short version misses something. Rinse and repeat.
That land will be fought over till the end of mankind. It holds signifigance to the 3 most bloodthirsty peoples on earth. christians, jews and muslims. You want to put money on where WW3 starts put it in that area. They fucking hate each other and no peace treaty is going to solve that.
Honestly I just don't know much about the history of this area, and your summary is a good breakdown. I'm gonna spend some time on it today and get more familiar with the whole history/conflict. Thanks.
PS: From a quick read I still fail to see how this works:
Israel = good guys
Palestine = bad guys
There are good Jews and bad Jews. There are good Muslims and bad Muslims. It's not simple enough to break down into good/bad.
I may be biased because I'm close friends with someone from Jordan who identifies as Palestinian, but in recent history the Palestinians have got the short end of the stick. They got crapped on by essentially the entire Western world and handed two little pieces of land (Gaza and the West Bank) and can't even live peacefully in there (partly their own fault for continually trying to push the boundaries). Also keep in mind that the Palestinians are heavily outnumbered and the West doesn't (in general) give a shit about them.
I sympathize mostly with the vast majority of both Jews and Muslims in the region who just want to live peaceful lives. The conflict is a result of a minority. You should make an effort to befriend people from the Middle East, it may give you a new perspective on the issue. Otherwise it's difficult to project humanity onto people in the region.
Edit - I used 'Muslim' and 'Jew' instead of 'Palestinian' and 'Israeli' because it is their belief systems that differentiate them more than their origins, in my opinion. Maybe I'm wrong.
I never said that anyone is good or bad; my take Israel has to take the hard line approach or risk being destroyed. As I touched on before, they don't have too many friends in the area. Sure I don't approve of everything they do and there's a few things you really could of brought up that are harder to justify; my biggest being how they keep extending their border after each war; I guess you could put that under the eating the shit sandwich clause I mentioned before.
Please don't take my position as pro/anti Israeli or Palestinian. My position on this that Israel is invincible in terms of military conflict. But that's not how they'll lose. Time is their biggest enemy. As you'll see in the link, the percentage of Jews is shrinking; I believe it will be in their best interest to try and come to a peaceful solution before a civil war breaks out.